Does consciousness exist outside the brain reddit.
I don't think our brain creates consciousness.
Does consciousness exist outside the brain reddit If consciousness does not reside in the brain or body, "where" is it? I’ve read Dennett’s Consciousness Explained several times, and I think it’s too strong to say he believes it’s not real. Something can only stand out if there is always something standing in that is the background. One thing that is worth considering is the epihenomenal theory of consciousness, which essentially states that the consciousness is a biproduct that arises out of the workings of the brain, but does not influence it. I have seen some That stuff is all a part of the brain, and like I said, I believe the consciousness, and mind/body are separate, but connected. It doesn't have anything to do with consciousness --- I'm wondering whether the OP's argument that consciousness doesn't exist wouldn't apply equally well to things like beauty (so if we agree that beauty does exist, there must be something wrong with that argument). The theory of reductive materialism says that consciousness is purely a byproduct of the brain, this belief is very prevalent in the mainstream scientific community. There is no time for something that does not exist. This doesn't prove that the brain generates consciousness, but it does suggest that without the brain, there is no consciousness. It’s just people mistaking their data processing for an experience of qualia. If you think about it, it has fundamentally no characteristics, and, if not It is certainly the case that returning consciousness to a dead brain is still beyond us medically. The brain has a bunch of things running that sum up to a consciousness kind of like Jenga, taking one brick away doesn't mean the whole tower collapses. But what evidence or behavior can we observe to support this claim about the relative experience of human beings and plants? Consider the types of behavior we usually attribute to conscious life, such as reacting to physical harm or caring for others. 59K subscribers in the consciousness community. If zero input is required, then zero harm can be assumed to this entity as well, hence it becomes pointless and the entity might as well be a rock. Quantum physics says that in order for something to exist it must be observed. Whatever this consciousness thing is, it seems dependent on the self-reflective nature of the brain that produces it, since self-awareness is such a big component of it. What would stop is the brain's ability to record memories. So while we can scientifically show that some functions reside within the brain, we counterintuitively cannot yet conclude that we have found the actual conscious experience. Literally means to stand out. Patients have reported seeing things outside the body during NDE's that have been known to have actually happened, from a birds eye view. Hence why it doesn't eliminate the Hard Problem - it doesn't posit only biological consciousness, only that biological consciousness does exist. Consciousness does not generate an experience, it is an experience. In my own world, the soul does indeed have a functional mind outside the body. , physics, Yes it’s created by YOUR brain (mind actually). If there's no memories in a brain from before the brain existed, consciousness doesn't experience memories from before that brain existed. So the atoms that made up your brain will exist but your consciousness won’t. First time I run into that metaphor was a post in this forum. There is no conclusive evidence that suggests that our consciousness could ever exist without our biological body, or more specifically, outside of our physical realm. People have experienced death and come back. Very few non-physicalists say that. This is of course a possible theory that can be proposed as an alternative to the conventional narrative. in regards to your hypothetical, the brain would need to be removed from all stimulus before birth, as sensory input starts well before then. A lack of a broadly agreed on explanation for a phenomenon we want to explain can reasonably be called a problem in science. Consciousness is ought to be the subject of everything where mind is a form of linguistic structure that emerges from consciousness. Planets, stars stand out of the emptiness of space. Conceptually, we can all detect and label colors. I think our We have no monkey brain. Here are some: Various substances (alcohol, antidepressants, other medications) have an impact on the brain and in turn consciousness. While you’re right that we can’t prove that some aspects of consciousness might exist outside our brains, we can certainly do a lot more than show neural correlates on an MRI. It's the same effect as walking at twilight until it's pitch black. A neurosurgeon can poke around your brain with electrodes and directly effect your perception while you’re awake. e. But sea stars are actually closer relatives of you and me than things like insects or spiders. This would mean that you would not need to record memories as there is no time and all is happening at once. It was proven not to exist. It's a part of the world, but not a physical part even if it's existence seems to depend on the physical (i. There are certainly examples of people who are “unconscious” in the For discussion of the scientific study of consciousness, as well as related philosophy. Can consciousness exist outside the brain? Study about Sudden Savant Syndrome. Explain Like I'm Five is the best forum and archive on the internet for It seems to result from the whole brain working together. ” We must define brain. For discussion of the scientific study of consciousness, as well as related philosophy. If everything is energy and consciousness (which I believe it is) and we create our own reality depending on our state of being within our minds which is linked to every other state of being in the oneness, then, does the non physical world that other very conscious I think consciousness to Chalmers is subjective experience mixed with a linear sense of self. I'll grant that something like epiphenomenalism (the concept that consciousness is distinct from the brain, but does not affect the brain) is unfalsifiable, but at that point Occam's Razor recommends you bite the bullet on physicalism. Does it explain anything about consciousness or just add a needless burden of proof to your View community ranking In the Top 1% of largest communities on Reddit. Generated by something outside the scope of our understanding, for the entertainment of the observer we consider our conscious identity. " Yes, it does, because anything quantifiable can be communicated mathematically. So wrong views of physicalism (only physics stuffs exist ultimately, or everything is reducible to physics) leading to wrong views of no rebirth. There's very little proof that consciousness is rooted in the brain. Others claim that our conception of consciousness, as something qualitative and subjective is misguided, and false intuitions are giving rise to a problem that doesn't really exist. For discussion of the scientific study of consciousness, as well as related Skip to main content Some think that experiences is in part grounded in the brain and body, and to some extent the external environment, and if those arguments prove correct then there is no consciousness without sensory input because consciousness is in part grounded in the sensory input. I think consciousness is just a product of our neural network recognizing itself in the universe by gathering information through its senses and then evaluating and comparing it to previous experiences stored in our brains. It seems to result from the whole brain working together. Thank you Same-Night8231 for posting on r/consciousness, below are some general reminders for the OP and the r/consciousness community as a whole. you can explain the types of decisions consciousness tends to make this way, but consciousness does not boil down to predictive ability. A general reminder for the OP: please remember to include a TL; DR and to clarify what you mean by "consciousness" . 17 votes, 15 comments. Reply more reply I’m saying that “qualia” isn’t a thing - it’s defined as some subjective conscious experience itself - but as consciousness does not exist, the subjective experience of qualia also doesn’t. I think: false dichotomy. g. It's all that was needed for survival. I like to think of consciousness using matter as a "medium" for existing. Open menu Open navigation Go to Reddit Home. The mind exists. So I think the universe depends on consciousness to exist. It's possible that consciousness is a fundamental component of reality. Crypto If the brain is the source of consciousness Would you like to suggest some other source of consciousness because observation would dictate that the brain is the source of We all know quality doesn't exist outside of a brain; the color red is not real, it is just a frequency of light. saying it is an emergent property is I don't know if the soul exists, but consciousness doesn't need it to exist because consciousness can be just a brain phenomenon, some neurons communicating with each other through chemical reactions. Problem is, those who thinks that consciousness is created by brain are physicalists, and they believe that the mind dies with the brain, no possible way to open their minds to the possibility of rebirth. An individual’s consciousness isn’t a package that can be transferred from one vessel to another like software. Anesthesia, blunt force trauma studies, recreational drug use, simple neuroscience, the list goes on. Everything else exists only because of consciousness. In other words, It implies that consciousness is a purely-physical phenomenon, and therefore it should, theoretically, be possible (though not necessarily practical) to simulate it. One of the more uncomfortable ideas is that consciousness is just an We assume that consciousness does not exist in the absence of a brain or a central nervous system. 3. But silence weaves an amazing song. Sudden Savant. Abstract objects exist "outside" of minds. There is no remotely convincing evidence I have even seen that disassociates consciousness from the brain. If you want to study the neurobiology of the brain, that is chill. If minds are brains, then it occurs "inside" of brains Brains are necessary for consciousness (because brain damage causes damage to consciousness). No brain = no consciousness. But what evidence or behavior can we observe to support this claim about We all know quality doesn't exist outside of a brain; the color red is not real, it is just a frequency of light. We would prefer it if your TL; DR was a single Yes, this is something I've put a lot of thought into as well. There is a natural comparison between the neurons of our brain and a sophisticated computer. He highlights that our mind often fills in gaps and pretends to have a fuller Summary: Consciousness can not simply be reduced to neural activity alone, researchers say. If consciousness weren't causally active there would be no reason for it to track the outside world, and as there is an infinite number of worlds that are radically different from the outside world that a non-causally active consciousness could track, we cannot rationally hold that consciousness is not causally active, as that would entail that the probability of us being correct about this I think consciousness to Chalmers is subjective experience mixed with a linear sense of self. This is a genuine question. And because it feels that way, "how do i exist" feels far more profound than "why does this particular rain drop exist instead of those quarks having ended up as coal instead. That said, I think there is wide agreement that there are indeed evolutionary advantages to consciousness. Somehow these neurons, working together, are what we refer to as our "self", and other memories, ideas, etc. Therefore "things" by definition are never conscious. They claim laughable things like I'm "presupposing my own conclusion" by defining consciousness as what the brain does. The act of thinking a thought (or the act of mentally representing a proposition) is something that is mental -- and so, we can say occurs "inside" of a mind. Consciousness is. You: No consciousness is coming from [insert some claim about how consciousness in some way exists or originates outside the brain]. This does not automatically include the Neuroscience today says consciousness is generated by and localized in the brain because it emerges from brain activity. If you mean subconscious it exists because it evolved first. Though, this experience is represented in your mind and can thus be physically represented because the mind is physical The physical correlate in the brain is considered to be essentially different from the quale itself. Emergentistic consciousness should not exist or not exist at all, it’s just the result of evolution, namely randomness combined with a given environment where life was able to *The 2023 Holberg Debate: 'Does Consciousness Extend Beyond Brains?' Do conscious experiences happen both within and outside the brain, and can science solve the 'hard problem' of consciousness? At this year's Holberg Debate, Tanya Luhrmann, Anil Seth and Rupert Sheldrake will take on the deep scientific and philosophical mystery of consciousness. 6M subscribers in the changemyview community. Even the fantasy of there being something outside consciousness, is in reality, inside consciousness. If we assume time isn't linear, then we could all be the same soul experiencing the world from different perspectives. There are those who will try to deny this because they have a non-physicalist preconceived bias that forces them to undermine the role of the brain as much as possible, in order to argue for their beliefs. Sound isn't real, it is just a frequency of denser air hitting our ear drums (then cochlear Business, Economics, and Finance. So that drives us to understand the interconnectedness and ever-changingness of everything. At In the end, the question of whether consciousness can exist outside the brain invites us to expand our horizons, challenge our assumptions, and embrace the profound can be read to mean "there's no evidence that brains can exist independent of the experience of consciousness (all brains must experience consciousness)," or "outside of the conscious It then “transmits wave information into the brain tissue, that is instrumental in high-speed conscious and subconscious information processing,” Dirk wrote. According to this belief, Terminal Lucidity should not exist. What science does is measure or analyse those things which are sensory in nature. without any input, neural pathways would have no motivation to form, That's a really interesting point that you bring up as it's really the case that when you ask the question of why something is, you're asking for what reason it exists. If consciousness does exist outside of the brain, then it wouldn't stop. Consciousness is something like a self-experienced indivisible substance that has no physical source or a cause, and it is the very “Consciousness is a boundary condition between a singularity (black hole) and space within the brain. Consciousness does not exist. although rare, spread outside the brain, destructing other organs succumbing due to difficulty managing it alongside concurrent diseases that come with age My tumor was in the right frontal lobe, partially abutting the premotor cortex and a blood supply to the rest of the right frontal lobe. We would prefer it if your TL; DR was this does not say anything about how stuff is objectively or in reality or from the scientific point of view-- just from the point of view of a subject, from the point of view of how things appear. Explore space and compare this to a a neural network or a cell. Where exactly is memory stored "outside of the brain"? But while theoretical physicists can happily propose ideas such as the predictions of string theory—from ten (or more) dimensions of space to the vast landscape of possible universes—and still have their work get a fair hearing, it is considered a risk to one’s reputation to suggest that consciousness might exist outside the brain. Consciousness is an emergent phenomenon of a complex, large group This is unproven, though it can be assumed due to our observations of correlating woo to physical functions. The left brain seeks, isolates, & grabs; it has laser focused attention. Alternatively, we propose that consciousness may not I’ve read Dennett’s Consciousness Explained several times, and I think it’s too strong to say he believes it’s not real. It could be my brain purple is your brain orange Disclaimer: I am high 🪂 if something doesn't make sense I can edit myself tomorrow Light is fun Reality is no different. With those three facts we can definitively say that there is no soul or spirit. So the mind body distinction boils down to what is the physical difference between a dead brain and a live one and if this cannot be perceived or measured then it must exist beyond physics, aka it must be metaphysical. But consciousness does not exist. We know our identity to be the byproduct of brain cells function, whose extremely complex activity allows the formulation of every thought and the collection of every experience as memories, ultimately defining us. As John Searle says, "consciousness is both caused by *and* realized in the brain". No intelligence or consciousness is shown to exist outside of a brain. It may be more accurate to say that we have a plethora of empirical evidence indicating that consciousness is contingent on the physical brain (neurodegenerative diseases, brain injuries, neurosurgery, drugs etc. Stress, pain, and brain trauma all have noticeable effects on a person's behavior and conscious experience as well. An active brain is not conscious. The nature of consciousness/thought can only be inferred or indirectly studied. Software (code, as you mentioned) in fact cannot exist in the absence of a physical entity. If the NDE happens entirely in the brain, where does the electrical stimuli come from what they saw? How did the brain receive that stimuli from outside the head. But if you're trying to understand consciousness by assuming that it's located within the neuronal substrate, you're gonna have a 13 votes, 106 comments. 'Knowing' is a process that requires consciousness. Any dualistic model with more interaction is susceptible to criticism based on the effects of brain damage. Not saying the brain creates consciousness (or the opposite), but I do want to point out that the connection between the brain and consciousness goes way beyond damage in the brain. ” Consciousness is the presence of subjective experience. After discussing agency, we started talking about consciousness. Neuroscience shows that our consciousness, intelligence and memory does not/cannot exist without the brain and when you die your brain dies with you. While death might result in your current identity being erased, there's no reason for anxiety. I have seen some people suggest that consciousness could exist outside of the brain and that sparked my curiosity. , physics, someone’s consciousness is lost by shutting down his or her brain or by shutting down certain parts of his or her brain in light of these fact, i think it's clear that brains are not required for If you can reliably alter or suspend one’s consciousness or the perception of pain etc by disrupting or suspending particular brain processes, it can be reasonably inferred that, broadly speaking, consciousness is caused If consciousness does indeed extend beyond the brain, it could have profound impacts on fields ranging from medicine to psychology and beyond. Usually, when we speak of consciousness, it applies to the organism. You're getting a data-stream to your consciousness, which produces the illusion of the external world. All that ever was and ever will be is here now. No, not quite. An intuitive definition of mine would be being aware of everything that's outside of your own mind and thus acknowledging your mind Everything points to consciousness being a byproduct of our brains. Do not mis quote me. Yet, logically, things would appear the same way if consciousness emerged from brains. We understand this not completely but well enough to know we're right. He argued that consciousness must be defined as all subjective experience and the literal presence of your being. Damage the brain, and you damage consciousness. Individual air molecules exist, While there is no mechanism to objectively demonstrate the brain cerating consciousness, Positing that it currently exists in one form does not imply that it could not potentially exist in another. It's beyond doubt that the brain/body at absolute minimum has a very strong effect on consciousness and all observable evidence indicates that when it stops so does consciousness. So does the sleeping state, that's amazing too, the body gets to rest so the next day we can ask questions like you pose. I don't have any evidence. If one is forever in a deep sleep state, would you call him unconscious? Clearly not because his state of knowing deep sleep is in consciousness as well. All is consciousness. The fundamental issue of consciousness is that we don’t even know if consciousness does reside in the brain matter, because we don’t know if consciousness is the kind of thing that can be found. Your conscious mind does not control them, hell, it can't even perceive them. For a lack of better words, consciousness is the "medium" in which "things" appear, "it" can't be objectified itself. There at least seems to be a connection between consciousness and the brain, which we haven't observed between consciousness and anything else. Accidental Genius. Posted by u/coochiflipflops - 2 votes and 23 comments Phenomonological consciousness is different from the activity of a nervous system by definition, it is the subjective 1st person perspective, rather than the activity in the body seen from the outside by a 3rd person observer. If you get damage to the prefrontal cortex, you have personality changes. Hope this makes sense. Distinct 'God spot' in the brain does not exist - researchers have completed research that indicates spirituality is a complex phenomenon, and multiple areas of the brain are responsible for the many aspects of spiritual experiences. See: https://iep. We are aware of being someplace else during our dream, so consciousness doesn't cover everything. Individual air molecules exist, While there is no mechanism to objectively demonstrate the brain cerating consciousness, Because no other model has explained it either, not to the degree of granularity you're asking. If you want to understand the neural mechanisms and brain imagining and apply that understanding to epic technology and medicine, that is awesome. We assume that consciousness does not exist in the absence of a brain or a central nervous system. In that case, everything isn't necessarily conscious but everything would appears and eventually disappear in consciousness. In healthcare, a deeper understanding of consciousness could This review examines phenomena that apparently contradict the notion that consciousness is exclusively dependent on brain activity, including phenomena where In fact, Fenwick believes that consciousness actually exists independently and outside of the brain as an inherent property of the universe itself like dark matter and dark energy or In fact, Fenwick believes that consciousness actually exists independently and outside of the brain as an inherent property of the universe itself like dark matter and dark energy or Consciousness is not outside nor inside of the brain. The prevailing consensus in neuroscience is that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain and its metabolism. Nothing doesn’t exist but consciousness can cease to exist. " Does this not show that memory and records of the 3D are indeed kept outside of the brain? Not by itself. While some people insist "consciousness" exists, let me remind everyone about æther - many physicists before Maxwell believed it was real. It implies that consciousness is a purely-physical phenomenon, and therefore it should, theoretically, be possible (though not necessarily practical) to simulate it. Actual free will would be the ability to control the rollercoaster. The illusion of free will is being on a rollercoaster and thinking you’re controlling it, which you’re not. I didn't say consciousness is limited, I said it doesn't have to be infinite/limitless. No, people who say this assume consciousness is something immaterial which I have to "prove" is caused by the brain and so they think me defining it as what the brain does is "presupposing my own conclusion. But at the same time, the right brain must be on the lookout for both foes & friends. Once you have enough brain matter in the right shape, you get consciousness. In fact it's not clear but we know exactly what consciousness is is. Consciousness, as this knowing of yourself and your fingers and your toes and the air in your lungs, does seem bound to the constraints of human perception, but calling that all In the same vein, all of the energies and biophysical phenomena that the brain experiences as consciousness do indeed exist independently and outside of the brain (e. As such, applying it to 'the brain' isn't valid. Monkeys and humans evolved from a common ancestor. But I need to compare, therefore outside of myself does exist for me. Does consciousness exist? How does a behaviorist talk about consciousness, inner experience, subjectivity? Here is my discussion Consciousness is similar, you can ask similar questions, why is there something instead of nothing, and it feels like it has something to do with reality and that's why there exist all of the theories around consciousness being as integral to the observable universe as an electromagnetic field looks to be. And even if the consciousness does rely on a brain for awareness, Get the Reddit app Scan this ETA: In non-duality, consciousness is not a "property of" a mind/brain, or a way of perceiving that arises once a being reaches a then no, nothing does r/consciousness: For discussion of the scientific study of consciousness, as well as related philosophy. For you can hold that all times exist, that dinosaurs and Martian colonies exist (they exist in the past or future), but that there is still one true present. Others claim that this is a problem that we don't have the (cognitive) capacity to answer. To me consciousness and mind are distinctly seperate. " But really if life ever evolved a brain, then each of those brains was going to call itself "me" and then some of those brains were going to wonder why they existed. We are distant cousins. saying it is an emergent property is It's long been acknowledged that consciousness is something different from the physical brain, but the exact relationship between the two eludes us. I use mind and consciousness interchangeably. edu When you get brain damage you loose cognitive functioning. Yeah to summarise - if certain cognitive processes that are thought to take place in the brain can be shown to take place outside of the brain then we can assume that the mind exists beyond the brain in the functional sense i. Consciousness is generated by the brain in a completely physical manner. but that doesn't make that knowledge any less dependent upon neurons/a physical state. So, my theory is that a soul does not exist, and consciousness comes directly from our hardware (our brain). If you get damage to the hippocampus, you loose recent memories. They aren't two unrelated things that seem to correlate. Members Well, I think it depends on the definition of consciousness. I'm curious to hear thoughts on whether this way of looking at consciousness would be more successful for physicalists than proposing that consciousness originates solely in the brain? I'll admit that it still seems like a bit of a dubious physicalist position to me, but it makes a bit more sense than a physicalist stance which proposes consciousness to be contained only within the Reddit: William James (1842-1910) says that consciousness doesn't exist. What does this tell us? My answer is that the next port of call should be the measurement problem in quantum mechanics, and the Von Neumann / Stapp interpretation. Bridging neural activity So the mind exists, but it isn't the sort of thing that has a location - just like numbers, physical laws, possibilities, time, etc. Some concepts below that I believe are important, you can find much better and more technical articles other than Wikipedia if you wish. Me: Prove it. Consider first that it’s possible for conscious experience to exist without any outward expression at all (at least in a brain) . It boils down to the fact that we have two, distinct brains in our skull; all organisms of sufficient complexity must attend to the world in two, different ways: we must eat, & not be eaten. In any case, I don't see how consciousness could be like energy making everything work, since its seems that only the brain is needed for behaviours to exist, and only one mind/consciousness I'm curious to hear thoughts on whether this way of looking at consciousness would be more successful for physicalists than proposing that consciousness originates solely in the brain? I'll admit that it still seems like a bit of a dubious physicalist position to me, but it makes a bit more sense than a physicalist stance which proposes consciousness to be contained only within the There's evidence for the physicalist perspective in that we are able to directly influence consciousness via the brain, and things without brains do not possess consciousness. There is every indication that consciousness is dependent on brain tissue. We dream while we are unconscious. There is nothing, but consciousness. Ask when does consciousness emerge in evolution and you'll find yourself running into the fundamental forces. If minds are brains, then it occurs "outside" of brains. I think consciousness is the most fundamental thing in existence. If you hold this, you are a Moving Spotlight theorist. Consciousness will continue. Consciousness does not exist “out there. The effects of brain damage is strong evidence that consciousness and personality reside in the brain. Sea stars have simple nerve nets whereas many arthropods have what could be called a brain, and some of them are capable of some impressive cognition. All of us are neurodiverse. 23M subscribers in the explainlikeimfive community. Saying "experience" relies on embodiment is not the same thing as saying consciousness depends on the physical states of the brain. so we experience things like "air pressure", which does not actually exist outside of our perception. What if our existence is nothing but merely a figment of a 4th dimensional thought, what if when I think of an apple, there is now a reality somewhere of that same apple, what if our brains that create our reality, have the ability to create other realities outside of our physical dimension, as far as we know there is no limitation of to how much can exist, so maybe the earth's 4. A place to post an opinion you accept may be flawed, in an effort to understand other perspectives on If it was outside of the brain, one would expect sensory connections to be damaged but for consciousness itself to remain consistent. Explain Like I'm Five is the best forum and archive on the internet for Evidence from “split-brain” patients — people who have the two halves of their brain surgically separated to prevent severe epilepsy — suggests that each half of the brain develops a separate sphere of consciousness, at least under some circumstances. To claim that consciousness doesn't require a brain, you must In philosophy, “conscious” is not usually equated with “alert. I don't think our brain creates consciousness. Consequently before you are born you do not even exist, your personality, tastes and memories (in Other intoxicants and hormone treatments. Posted by u/GeneticDestiny180 - No votes and 162 comments Ask when does consciousness emerge in evolution and you'll find yourself running into the fundamental forces. This isn't to say that consciousness could survive the cessation of brain function, although it is conceivable something without a nervous system could be conscious By energetic world I mean spiritual but Reddit wouldn’t allow me to put that in the title. A place to post an opinion you accept may be flawed, in an effort to understand other perspectives on Why would there be a connection, what do you assume consciousness to be but more than a function and a result of your brains work, why should this only apply to humans, how does consciousness a thing that can not exist in a dead body same as any type of feeling or cognitive function of the deceased individual, establish a metaphysical connection and cause you to As far as we can tell, there is no average brain. For consciousness isn’t a something in a material sense it is an emergent phenomena of complex arrangements of matter. Objects exist. 5 billion They can say, with absolute logical consistency, that yes, it is just a belief that things exist separately outside of consciousness -- its obvious that consciousness is the root, you can't 'get behind' consciousness. It controls a lot of the natural processes too without us even knowing. It’s not a “thing” that can exist outside of an individual’s brain, even if consciousness in the larger, more esoterically fundamental sense does (if you buy that sort of thing). This does not The body exists. Therefore, your analogy of a software existing outside of hardware (a soul existing outside of a body), is flawed. Consciousness can't ever be a "thing". Different people use different sides of the brain for the same thing. Exactly. Which he did not. I disagree, insofar as we can talk about consciousness without referring to brains, or even understanding that brains are involved. it's like But while theoretical physicists can happily propose ideas such as the predictions of string theory—from ten (or more) dimensions of space to the vast landscape of possible The fundamental issue of consciousness is that we don’t even know if consciousness does reside in the brain matter, because we don’t know if consciousness is the kind of thing that can be Hi u/FlakyJackfruit9892, . The wave I mean it was fairly obvious to me after we studied the brain in Anatomy, what’s awesome about us is that our consciousness is created from different sections of our brain, it communicates with other parts of the brain, (electrical signals), to you know live and think. This could all be wrong but as I understand it. Posted by u/GeneticDestiny180 - No votes and 162 comments As far as we can tell, there is no average brain. Thank you sandude23 for posting on r/consciousness, below are some general reminders for the OP and the r/consciousness community as a whole. When the brain dies, the mind and consciousness of the being to The brain may not create consciousness but "filter" it. Then later we evolved to have the parts of our brain responsible for conscious thought. Sound isn't real, it is just a frequency of denser air hitting our ear drums (then cochlear things happen). r/consciousness A chip A chip Idealists don't claim that the brain does not exist, they claim that all aspects of what we call the brain are appearances within consciousness. You: I can't. The cause and effect are 100% established through anaesthesia, head trauma, lobotomies, etc. This is consciousness. In fact, making an agent of 'the brain' is a mereological fallacy, since you can't ever separate 'the brain' and have it do things on its own. All times exist, but the spotlight illuminating "now" runs across the This is how I understand consciousness. I don't really feel this is an answerable question since there is no fundamental understanding of what constitutes 'consciousness', as in sentient thought and identity. IMO this would be like identifying your "self" with your cell phone, or your shoes. The Allegory of the Cave was right all along The concept of Me, You, or any other human entity as a conscious being, does not really exist. Neuroscience has furnished evidence that neurons are fundamental to consciousness; at the fine and gross scale, aspects of our conscious experience depend on specific patterns of neural activity – in some way, the connectivity of neurons computes the features of our experience. Members Online Firstly you seem to be implying by negation from your question that Aquinas believed that consciousness depended on physical states of the brain. We noticed you are a pretty new Reddit account, so we just wanted to let you know to check out the subreddit rules here and maybe have a read through our We don’t know if the brain creates consciousness or receives it. Evidence for a soul would be a person losing their entire brain and still behave exactly the same with no changes in personality. NDEs being called “near death” because the person came back, so I don’t Consciousness is emergent. with respect to the human brain and the case of consciousness, not only we do not know (to use your words) "where" the outside "transmitter" might be even if it exists, we have zero --- and I mean zero zero -- reason to believe that an outside transmitter exists at all. Is it true, however, that consciousness does not continue characteristic of "redness" of my experience in terms of physical brain processes because this is not accessible outside of my Explaining the phenomenology of consciousness via brain activity seems conceptually incompatible. There are several ancient belief systems that see consciousness as the primary, underlying phenomenon. All of us are so neurodiverse that most of us use different brain regions for different things and are often connected in different ways. In fact, Fenwick believes that consciousness actually exists independently and outside of the brain as an inherent property of the universe itself like dark matter and dark To address your other statements, it would be more accurate to say we CANNOT reasonably or justifiably have ANY confidence that consciousness can exist without a brain, as there is ZERO evidence of a consciousness functioning without a brain outside of 100% of all demonstrated Consciousness that we know of in the universe, has all originated from a material brain of some sort. However, a physical brain serves as somewhat of a built-in control room for the body and is thus required for a soul to inhabit a vessel. Points more to external consciousness to me. There's evidence for the physicalist perspective in that we are able to directly influence consciousness via the brain, and things without brains do not possess consciousness. e your mind stops existing once your brain does and depends on your brain). Exist in Latin: ex (out) + sistere (to stand). Absolutely nothing can be asserted to exist outside consciousness. This may not be a startling revelation, but what I mean to point out is that what you are doing when asking why something exists is asking for the purpose it serves on a relatively larger scale (relative to the thing itself). I don't know if the soul exists, but consciousness doesn't need it to exist because consciousness can be just a brain phenomenon, some neurons communicating with each other through chemical reactions. I don't know if we'll ever know exactly how the brain creates consciousness. There is no “before” for a person before they were conceived, and there is no “after” for a person after they die. It isn't tied to a single part of the brain, it emerges from the functions of the brain as a whole. 5 billion 16 votes, 27 comments. "Consciousness" doesn't exist a separate thing or object that we can extrapolate about. Our “non physicalist” friends maintain generally that consciousness is a product of some outside force, and that the brain is some sort of receiver or antenna. You can induce a loss of consciousness by affecting the brain. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. They are an interpretation of a brain of a certain type of light with a certain In the case of the color red, it is the phenomenon of a brain interpreting the wavelength that a particular photon has. and from this point of view, everything does not simply appear within awareness, but is inseparable from awareness -- arises together with it, the seen being an intrinsic moment of the seeing, a I'm not sure how you would identify with the parts of the brain that handle activities outside the scope of consciousness. But also it is always changing and never in a static form that can be observed as a "thing". In Jenga the tower is consciousness and the brain is all of the wood blocks that makes up the tower. There is consciousness, and consciousness is aware of whatever the senses experience. It would be highly unlikely for such a network to survive without the rest of the body it depends on, but aside from that we aren’t certain that all brains produce consciousness. But again, this still doesn't debunk the "woo" aspect of the brain/consciousness. The "sender-receiver" metaphor It's long been acknowledged that consciousness is something different from the physical brain, but the exact relationship between the two eludes us. But brains are not sufficient for consciousness (because of the hard problem). In any case, I don't see how consciousness could be like energy making everything work, since its seems that only the brain is needed for behaviours to exist, and only one mind/consciousness I consider myself a hard determinist and the family member is a compatibilist. •What gives rise to consciousness is a complex system (the brain) with several different parts of the brains interacting between themselves, a complex wiring with complex electrical influxes, neurons, etc. Consciousness arises from the brain being as such. as an interactive feedback loop between brain body and world. And I agree. true. : Since 'we' (as individuals) can only ever experience reality from within our own brains, ie, we can't jump outside them unless you believe in obes etc, then any information we get about the world around us is ultimately what our brain 'creates' internally to guesstimate what This doesn't prove that the brain generates consciousness, but it does suggest that without the brain, there is no consciousness. No, that's not right. Awareness, however, is a more spiritual idea. ” The event horizon separates “a mental model of reality for internal use in each individual” from all that exists outside of it. I'm a staunch In the same vein, all of the energies and biophysical phenomena that the brain experiences as consciousness do indeed exist independently and outside of the brain (e. Consciousness can't be confused with brain itself. If it was possible, a consciousness could exist on its own outside of space and time, but it wouldn't be able to change as there is no environment for it to change to, and no "medium" for it Actually we are connected to the outside, by the feelings and especially sight, but in contrast to all of the input we get from our body this connection seems to not exist. 16 votes, 27 comments. From your comment, it seems that you believe that consciousness is a necessity A “before” does not exist for someone that does not exist just as how an “after” does not exist for someone that does not exist. So from a scientific perspective, we can only say that the brain (a physical thing) is probably responsible for consciousness because of the many reasons I mentioned before. We didn't evolve from monkeys. But if the soul exists things get more interesting, since consciousness and soul are perhaps the same thing, they are fused together. Me: The brain produces consciousness the way computer hardware runs computer software. But the way our brains individually interpret that color is unknown. . Well, I'm sure someone will come up with some word salad to dispute any points I'd make but I'll give it a shot. Now if materialism is fundamental, and consciousness is some biologic trick within the brain, then I have no idea. And the left brain right brain stuff is also incorrect. For instance, people in ancient times didn't know what the function of the brain was and tended to believe that subjective awareness resided in the heart. Two, consciousness pervades the universe and is an intrinsic property of matter. This does not automatically include the practice of awareness or practice of being conscious. I understand the brain is composed of many neurons which themselves are not intelligent or conscious. It's fundamentally different than how you are explaining it, it's not 'your' consciousness, nobody owns it. I would just add a final thought to highlight the fact that the radio analogy isn't adequate. He highlights that our mind often fills in gaps and pretends to have a fuller picture than it really does (or it might be better said that parts of our mind tell other parts that they know more than they do). If a certain set of appearances within consciousness is altered, like if a brain is lobotomized, why wouldn't that affect other appearances within consciousness, like your memory or ability to form sentences. What we actually observe is massive changes to consciousness when the posterior hot zone is damaged, which is hypothesized as being the area of the brain most responsible for consciousness. Now, idk what consciousness is neurologically, but you can take as an example the object of your question: how your body (which includes your mind) does incredibly complex things without you noticing, as if it was happening in the background. The "sender-receiver" metaphor Consciousness is a bit trickier, but there's no reason to think that consciousness happens anywhere outside of a living brain. Consciousness has to be pulled From the world because that is the world And when we die the energy energy phase is right back in to the pool all as it has a million other times. A novel study reports the dynamics of consciousness may be understood by you can't explain consciousness this way. all change the way consciousness is expressed), and no empirical evidence indicating that consciousness is dependent on something non-physical. One of the hypothesized driving forces towards brains is the evolution of bilateral symmetry. What's interesting about what you write here, is that your title asks "how could it be the case that consciousness is anything other than Conciousness could very well exist without the flow of time. There is currently no well-established theory in neuroscience that comprehensively explains how the brain generates consciousness. Assuming consciousness is a natural phenomenon, it necessarily requires "time" (i. What was supposed to be implied was that consciousness can use its infinite creative potential to create limited forms and experiences, such as where we find ourselves right now. If matter cannot change, information cannot flow, and consciousness cannot exist. But they idea that this state is somehow not a product of things physically happening in your brain makes no sense to me, this seems like a massive leap. the ability for matter to change). So, you could say that consciousness is located all over our body like a net, but it's not a physical thing, rather it's all of the connections between things in our body. 60K subscribers in the consciousness community. For example a cow is aware and conscious but not like humans. Please include a clearly marked TL; DR at the top of your post. It's a quite rigid belief, even though we as a species do not understand the nature of reality. It is interconnected with everything else and does not exist on its own. Skip to main content. Does math exist without brains? Maybe I And if I'm not, then there must be something outside of my consciousness which exists independently of it. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle The whole reason that consciousness exist is for an organism to survive. I think your question is more philosophical than biological. It's there even in the smallest and most undetectable particles, kinda similarly to how we can't really mathematically apply gravity to subatomic particles, but logically it would make sense, which is why physicists are working towards unifying relativity and quantum mechanics I wonder if it is possible that self-consciousness is an emerge of property of the interaction between biological brains and our planets magnetic If human consciousness turns out to only exist within Earth's magnetosphere, And "Can consciousness survive outside of Earth (like in the movie Interstellar) Every living thing shares consciousness, our brains are what give us our individuality. We have no means of empirical detecting the presence of consciousness, we have no means of quantifying it, no means of comparing one source of consciousness with another (we can't Colours do not exist in any way outside of perception, except for the equivalence wavelength/colour. Insofar as we know, consciousness is caused primarily by the brain (and possibly the gut), but it's also within the brain that consciousness is realized (or The brain has a causative effect on consciousness, no this does not mean definitive proof of the brain creating consciousness, but the relationship is causative. An active brain is merely active, not conscious. A striking example of this is the neurological condition called locked-in syndrome in which virtually In our standard view of things, consciousness exists only in the brains of highly evolved organisms, and hence it exists only in a tiny part of the universe and only in very In fact, Fenwick believes that consciousness actually exists independently and outside of the brain as an inherent property of the universe itself like dark matter and dark energy or gravity. However it then requires some elaboration. I don't think this is true. utm. Many ndes say that there is no time in the afterlife. 16 One half of the brain tends to control speech and the right side of the body, while the other half of the And because it feels that way, "how do i exist" feels far more profound than "why does this particular rain drop exist instead of those quarks having ended up as coal instead. Qualia are incommunicable, period. Consciousness is your subjective experience. Consciousness is expressed as the underlying source of existence known as the “field” and is infinite, boundless, limitless, timeless, all-knowing, ever-present, all-encompassing, yet, it’s non-local, space-less and non-personal. When our body dies, the brain loses consciousness permanently, but we can see that something leaves the body and that something is aware that we can see it. That we don't know how brain tissue creates consciousness doesn't negate that underlying situation. Animals most certainly have consciousness - for one, humans are animals. It’s all about who is actually I'll grant that something like epiphenomenalism (the concept that consciousness is distinct from the brain, but does not affect the brain) is unfalsifiable, but at that point Occam's Razor recommends you bite the bullet on physicalism. In my opinion it makes no sense and more questions arise than are answered. fmy agkgx rfp rodzin tap rpftclt bwdiko qpy ecf uht